0:00:06 Dori Nugent: Happy New Year fitness Business Podcast family JT and I have been working extremely hard to polish up our guest list for 2023. We have a year full of new names and fresh faces for our lineup, and I can guarantee you that they are the best of the best best in their field of expertise. Speaking of the best, today’s guest, Jamie Van Cuyk, is here to help us kick off the new year by providing her expert advice on finding and selecting the right people to join your team.

0:00:40 Dori Nugent: Let’s get started with another educational episode from the Fitness Business podcast. I was looking over our stats the other day for downloads, and I couldn’t believe what I saw. Show number 441, building a Powerful Fitness Brand with Lisa Haggis, is racking up the downloads. Listen, you have to check it out. She’s a business expert, a brand strategist, and she’s also the founder of Realize Your Brand.

0:01:14 Dori Nugent: Lisa states in her episode that your brand is the way you give people a reason to choose you. If you only have surface level marketing, your members won’t stay. Now, I’d say that’s a pretty powerful statement. Take a listen so you can hear what all the buzz is about. Hi, I’m your host, Dori Nugent. First of all, happy New Year to everyone. I don’t know about you, but I am so refreshed. I was fortunate to be able to take a couple of weeks off from the podcast due to the holiday, and I am ready to go.

0:01:57 Dori Nugent: I’m stoked about today’s topic, and we’re fortunate enough to find the perfect industry expert to come onto the show. So many of our listeners have reached out about this topic idea because one of their business goals for 2023 is.

0:02:12 Jamie Van Cuyk: To grow their team.

0:02:14 Dori Nugent: So I’d like to introduce you to Jamie Van Cuyk. She is the owner and lead strategist for growing your team. Jamie served her time in corporate America, hiring team members and putting teams together for the corporation that she worked for. She crafted a knack for it and then decided to branch out on her own and become an entrepreneur. We will hear from Jamie in less than two minutes. First, I’d like to say thank you to Myzone for supporting the podcast.

0:02:46 Dori Nugent: Myzone has pioneered unique wearables with talking point technology that makes the difference reach more members of your community and keep them engaged for longer through motivation and gamification wherever they choose to work out in the gym, at home, or outdoors. We’re stronger together. Get in the [email protected]. Thank you to Myzone and all of their amazing staff. If you currently aren’t using Myzone in your fitness facility hey. Take a look at their website.

0:03:18 Dori Nugent: You might just change your mind. Www.myzone.org.

0:03:25 Hapana: Get your pen ready now for keep me’s fitbispiration.

0:03:31 Dori Nugent: Hey, Jamie, could you give your top three tips for ensuring we get just the right person to join our team?

0:03:38 Jamie Van Cuyk: Yes, of course. All right. So tip number one is be very clear on who you need. You’re hiring someone for your business, not someone else’s business. So know who you need so you can find and determine if someone is the right person or not as you go through the hiring process. So then tip number two is once you know who you need, is create a hiring process that is specifically designed to uncover who that person is and then make sure you actually follow that process with every candidate that comes through.

0:04:09 Jamie Van Cuyk: So that way you can properly compare candidates and really hire the right person for you. And then my final tip for right now is don’t settle. You know who you need. You determine who your ideal candidate is, and you need to wait until you find that person. It will be better for you to spend an extra week or two in the hiring process to get the right fit than to hire the wrong person and go through all the hassle of having a wrong employee on your team.

0:04:37 Jamie Van Cuyk: Depending on the position, a bad hire can set a business back up to 16 weeks. So it’s much, much better to take a few extra days or a week or two to find the right person than get the wrong person and then have to start the process all over again next week.

0:04:54 Dori Nugent: Debbie O’Connor joins me on the mic. Debbie is the Creative Director for White River Design, and what is really interesting about Debbie is that she truly lives and believes the can do attitude. In her book Brand Magic, she talks about brand personality, and she’s going to give you tips on how to make sure your brand is Oozing personality and it’s not bland or boring. Her episode will be so different from our other branding episodes.

0:05:25 Dori Nugent: I’m really looking forward to having her on the show.

0:05:29 Hapana: This podcast is brought to you by Hapana. Hapana is a cutting edge membership management solution prioritizing insane engagement. Hapana puts your brand first so you can facilitate deep, meaningful connections with clients and members to book, pay, consume content, and build community. Hapana partners with fitness brands in both the boutique and big box segments that want to drive efficient operations and maximum engagement with clients and members.

0:06:00 Hapana: And they do this by providing direct, world class support with a passionate team who cares about your success. To see how you can transform your brand, go to Hapana.com and ask for a demonstration. Hapana engineered for Engagement.

0:06:18 Dori Nugent: Let’S transition into this week’s interview with Jamie Van Cuyk FVP family. We have Jamie Van Cuyk with us today. Her topic is finding and selecting the right people to join your team. I’m really, really glad to have her here. I know so many of you have been reaching out and asking for this topic. Jamie is here with us today as our industry expert. Thank you so much for joining the FBP team.

0:06:44 Jamie Van Cuyk: Yes, thank you so much for having me today.

0:06:46 Dori Nugent: Yeah. So tell us just really quickly a little bit about your background and how you got to the point where you are now at being the owner and lead strategist for growing your team.

0:06:59 Jamie Van Cuyk: I came from corporate leadership, but I was in a leadership position where the team I was managing was an entry level team. And I had really great employees on my team. So that meant they kept getting Poached to go elsewhere within the organization because I was working for a fairly large international marketing company, which he and my employees were always getting Poached. I always was hiring. And then I got tapped to help my peer managers hire because they didn’t always have time for hiring.

0:07:26 Jamie Van Cuyk: So I learned, even though our team members did the exact same thing, I learned what they needed and what was right for them because their team members worked with different sales teams and worked with different clients. And so those little differences made big differences when it came to hiring. And then through all that, I got tapped to work with our HR team on some larger initiatives where I got to learn the HR side of hiring.

0:07:50 Jamie Van Cuyk: I loved my corporate job, but shortly after my second daughter was born, I was like, this is it. I’m following my dreams. I’m going to start my own business. Started a business with my husband in software development because he’s a programmer. Six months in realized I hated that side of software development. I hated that side of technology. I wanted nothing to do with it. But I said, I’m not ready to go back to corporate yet.

0:08:12 Jamie Van Cuyk: What else can I do? So I took advantage of my chamber membership. I had at that time, went to every networking event that I could just to talk to people. I found myself talking to small business owners over and over and over again. And when I asked them, what are your challenges? Where would you like help? Almost everybody brought up hiring. I learned that most small business owners never hired before doing it within their own business.

0:08:37 Jamie Van Cuyk: And if they did have experience hiring, they had senior managers and HR teams and all these other people that were helping them hire when they were doing it for someone else, then now they were on their own. They had no clue what they were doing, and they were getting bad hire after bad hire after bad hire. And I sat there and said, hey, people need help with hiring. I know what it’s like to hire.

0:09:00 Jamie Van Cuyk: I know what it’s like to help other people hire for their teams. Let me see what I can do. About almost five years ago now, growing, your team was born. And for the last five years, I’ve been helping small business owners across all industries identify how to get the right people on their teams. And actually, my very first client was a gym owner perfect.

0:09:25 Dori Nugent: Well, like I said, we here at the Fitness podcast have had so many emails from our listeners asking they always ask us for certain topics and this is one we’re seeing over and over again. And ironically, my girlfriend that owns a club up north, I just checked in with her and like, hey, just checking in. How’s it going? And her response was, everything is good, but I am having Uber staff issues at my gym across the globe.

0:09:53 Dori Nugent: We all know there’s a labor shortage that’s nothing new. We see it on the news every day. And we find ourselves competing not just with other gyms for quality staff, but also other industries. What is, in your opinion, how can we position ourselves as being the employer of choice?

0:10:14 Jamie Van Cuyk: Yes, there’s a few different things you can do here. And one of the things I want you to think about is we really do a lot of work as business owners to figure out who we are so we can properly market to our customers. We know what makes us different than the other gym down the street or across the road and everything. When it comes to how do we attract our customers, we spend a lot of time on that.

0:10:37 Jamie Van Cuyk: And it’s the same with employees. You really have to know who you are and what makes you different and unique as an employer that would make people want to work there. And then you need to let people know about that difference. You need to let people know about who you are as your culture for your staff and not just your culture for your clients. A lot of times they’re going to overlap and be very similar.

0:11:02 Jamie Van Cuyk: But why should someone work for you versus that other company? When we’re working with clients, one of the questions we always ask is, what is unique about your business? Something that would make someone go, yes, this is the place for me. But someone else could read that and say, no, not for me, I’m not going to apply. And once you know really what makes you unique, you can put that on your website.

0:11:25 Jamie Van Cuyk: When you talk about your staff on your social media and show them off, you can have this be your theme of how we are different and what do we do for our staff and what makes it so. This is the place where you want to work because one of the things that we always say is kind of like with marketing. If you talk to everybody, you’re really talking to nobody. So stop trying to talk to everybody and talk to the person that you want to hire and focus everything around that person.

0:11:54 Jamie Van Cuyk: And they also know your culture and what it’s like to work for you. So they want to work for you and are eager to apply because they’re not applying just for another job, they’re applying for the job. They want you’re number one on their list.

0:12:08 Dori Nugent: What are your four suggestions to finding the right people when it comes to joining our teams?

0:12:16 Jamie Van Cuyk: Yeah. So number one is really understanding who it is that you need. So what I mean by this is what position? So depending on where you are in business and what your role is, that might be a very easy question to answer. And sometimes it’s, I just need help. I need another body in my gym. But you can’t just hire someone and be like, all right, now here’s the task I think you’re going to do. It might change tomorrow.

0:12:43 Jamie Van Cuyk: You really need to know what this person is going to do for your business. What are the roles and responsibilities, what’s the level of authority? Because all that stuff makes a difference. You’re also not going to hire someone and have it be really effective if they’re running your front desk, working with clients, cleaning the bathrooms and doing all this stuff. When you really want someone who’s very highly skilled working with clients, because in a lot of positions, are they going to want to do all that extra stuff?

0:13:10 Jamie Van Cuyk: But if that is a role that you need, like a hodgepodge role, you need to know that. So you go after and you mark it to the right person. So who is it that you need? The next thing to do is now that you know what roles and responsibilities and what levels of authority this position is going to have, start developing that picture of your idea candidate in your mind. What background do they have? What are they bringing to the table?

0:13:36 Jamie Van Cuyk: Who have they worked with before? Then you can build your whole strategy around finding this person. Because if you don’t, once again, going back to that, if you talk to everybody, you’re really talking to nobody. Once again, it’s the same with finding people. If you talk to every job hunter out there, you’re really talking to nobody. So it’s not enough to say I need to hire a personal trainer. It’s that I need to hire a personal trainer that fits this.

0:14:03 Jamie Van Cuyk: And what is that this? What is it that you want them to do that, once again, could be different than that gym down the street. What is it that you want that is going to make you happy in terms of your expectations? Because your expectations as that business owner, as that people manager or whatever your role is, is going to be different than someone filling that exact same role in another location.

0:14:29 Jamie Van Cuyk: So you need to know what you need and what your idea candidate is. So that way you can search for that person. Then number tip number three is to write a job posting that speaks directly to that person. As I mentioned, one of my very first clients was a gym owner. And when we were working together, he had the need to hire and he said, oh my gosh, I hate hiring. I never get any candidate. And I said, okay, well, let’s start at the beginning.

0:14:59 Jamie Van Cuyk: Show me the job posting that you use the last time you hired. He opened it. It was very short. It pretty much said, we are XYZ Gym and we’re hiring. Personal trainers apply. And I was just like, okay, that’s your problem. I was like, you’re not telling them anything other than that you’re hiring, so that’s why you’re getting nobody. Because no one’s reading that and saying, yes, that’s me. I need to apply.

0:15:26 Jamie Van Cuyk: And what he told me was, well, I want everybody who is a personal trainer who’s looking for an opportunity to apply. So that way I can then sort through all the candidates and figure out which ones I want to interview and which ones I don’t want to interview. And I said, okay, well, how’s that working out for you? And he said he thought about it and he goes, Well, I guess it’s not because I’m getting no candidates when I go and post this.

0:15:51 Jamie Van Cuyk: So I said, all right, so let’s try something different. And we wrote a job posting that talked directly to the person he wanted to hire. We made sure we had a clear list of roles and responsibilities that this person would do, because even though they’re probably very similar than if they were in another position, we made it clear of, this is what this job is in this gym. We posted that job out there, and in 48 hours, he had four highly qualified candidates for his role that applied.

0:16:21 Jamie Van Cuyk: And the thing about it, one of the reasons why four was great is because once we really figured out who that Idea candidate was, there was a very small pool of candidates who really qualified. Because he was looking for something so specific and a background that was so specific that most personal trainers wouldn’t qualify for this position. But once we spoke to the right person, he was able to get four highly qualified candidates applying within 48 hours.

0:16:49 Jamie Van Cuyk: And the next time he had the opportunity to expand and add a new personal trainer to his list of employees, he said, wow, that was so easy. I know I’ll be able to find someone this time. So it completely changed things just because we changed that job posting and spoke to the right person. And then number four. So after you go through all that, you get those candidates coming in. It’s really creating interview questions that are going to uncover the right thing about a candidate.

0:17:16 Jamie Van Cuyk: So you have that idea candidate in mind. Well, how do you determine if this person who you’re talking to is that idea candidate? So we create interview guides with our clients, and we work with our clients to really teach them that every question you ask should produce information of value. And it’s information of value because it helps you identify if this person is your idea candidate or not, if you’re going to ask a question that doesn’t connect back to that idea candidate profile, then it’s a waste of your time and it’s a waste of the candidates time.

0:17:48 Jamie Van Cuyk: So let’s cross it off the list and focus on only what matters, so that way you can narrow your applicants down to the right person for you to hire.

0:17:57 Dori Nugent: Wow, great advice there. I like that very much. But I have to go back to number three because I really relate to that one. And again, just recently I was talking to somebody and they were telling me about a job they were applying to, and they were so excited because she was like, I’m telling you, Dori, that job description is me. It spoke right to me. She like, the whole time I wrote the job description, I was like, that’s me. That’s me. I’m the person.

0:18:21 Dori Nugent: So they obviously did a very good job putting in there exactly who they were looking for. And obviously my girlfriend felt that she was their person.

0:18:31 Jamie Van Cuyk: And I see she had that real excitement. It wasn’t just one of many jobs she was applying to. She’s like, this is me. I want this job, and you want those candidates. You want those candidates that said, I’m going to do everything I can to be at the top of your list because I am so excited. And it’s not because they just need a paycheck. It’s because they want that job.

0:18:53 Dori Nugent: Yeah, well, now we have to have you come back for another episode. You have to answer the question so that the job description spoke to you. Now, how do you convince the employer that you’re their person? Right, because she was like, how do I convince that I’m their person? So I like that very much. All right, let’s move on. What are the key inclusions in every job advertisement?

0:19:17 Jamie Van Cuyk: Yeah, great question, because as we talked about, that job posting is super important. So I like to set up job postings kind of like a funnel. You start with your broadest information and you work your way down about the position. The very first section that you should include is a company overview, three sentences max. No more than that, because a candidate will stop reading. But you need to tell somebody who you are.

0:19:40 Jamie Van Cuyk: Once again, we talked about what makes you different than that other gym down the street. Who are your idea clients? Do you specialize in a certain area? That stuff is important because once again, it’s going to make someone say, yes, I want to work for this company, or no, I really don’t want to work for this company. So after you get them nodding their head along, that says, yes, this is the place where I can see myself working.

0:20:02 Jamie Van Cuyk: Then we do a brief description of the role so we have a job overview. Once again, three sentences max, because the candidates will stop reading anything more than that. The first sentence is just a quick one sentence summary of the responsibilities of the role. So how can you describe that role in one sentence? Your next two sentences are who your idea candidate is. So we use sentences like this position is right for you if the idea candidate for this role is and we spell out clearly who is right for this position.

0:20:37 Jamie Van Cuyk: So what is their background, what excites them, what type of clients do they like working with, and things about that that we really figure out when we created that picture of that idea candidate, what makes up that idea candidate, what is important, and we lay it all out there. So once again, people can be nodding their head along to say, okay, I want to work for this company. Yes, they’re describing me.

0:20:58 Jamie Van Cuyk: Let me keep reading. The next section is a bulleted list of the job details, what are the roles and responsibilities. And one thing I’ll tell you with this is language matters. So you want to make sure you’re clear on what is the authority and what is the responsibility of each thing you’re listening there. So for example, helping with clients is completely different than leading clients through workouts.

0:21:25 Jamie Van Cuyk: Because if someone reads helping clients, does that mean I’m helping the client or I’m helping someone else who is working with the client? So you want to make sure that that language matters, that it really says what their authority is, what they are doing. And be clear. We always end with performs other duties as assigned because you don’t want to get this super, super long list, but you want to be clear and concise so someone can read that and have a good understanding of what they’re going to be doing day to day.

0:21:55 Jamie Van Cuyk: And the last section that we say is mandatory for each effective job posting is requirement, what is required of the person in this position, what is required in their background. And sometimes we’ll list things here that are nice to have and we’ll say preferred. But really everything in here should be a requirement, a deal breaker. So if they need to already be certified, you need to list that. If they need to be able to get certification after being there or within so many months after starting, list that.

0:22:27 Jamie Van Cuyk: If they need to have a specialty in a certain area. For example, at a client that ran a gym that specialized in golf. So he needed people who either had a background in golf or at least be able to speak the language enough so they could have effective conversations with the client. So there’s things that are required about a person’s background. We also tend to include in here if there are specific things about days of the week they need to be available, certain hours they need to be available.

0:22:52 Jamie Van Cuyk: List those things in here because it’s a requirement of the person in that role. And then one more section that we say is optional only because not everybody is able to offer them is a section that gives a quick overview of benefits. So if you do offer benefits, like for example, free membership I know I was listening to one of the other podcasts where they were talking about that’s one thing they do for their employees is offer free membership.

0:23:16 Jamie Van Cuyk: Include that so people know what they’re getting. If you do have the opportunity because you’re larger and you provide health insurance for your full time employees, state that whatever your benefits are, if you offer them, state it. But once again, that’s an optional section because we know not every business can provide benefits based on their size.

0:23:34 Dori Nugent: Well, I had to laugh when you went over the section on the job details and you said, oh, we’ll just add at the bottom and performs other duties. And I thought about the age old classic employee that’s like, that’s not my job description.

0:23:50 Jamie Van Cuyk: And I think there is a fine line there. It’s like performance, other duties that’s assigned where it makes sense to ask this person to do it based on their role versus just assuming any employee in your business is going to be happy doing anything for you. So for example, if your list doesn’t say anything about sales and now all of a sudden you’re saying, I know you’re a personal trainer, but you also need to be going out and soliciting new clients and your free time and bringing them into the company.

0:24:17 Jamie Van Cuyk: And they’re like, wait, this job description mentioned nothing about sales other than keeping your clients happy. So they want to keep renewing their membership or buying more one on one sessions. I don’t feel comfortable going out and soliciting business on my own. Like, I wouldn’t have signed up for a role like that. So it’s that fine line of what are you asking them to do? Versus that should not be their job.

0:24:42 Jamie Van Cuyk: And they’re right when they say that’s not my responsibility. That’s not in my job description.

0:24:48 Dori Nugent: Yeah, I have to laugh. I’ve heard that so many times. You did a really nice job talking about putting the benefits in the optional, but putting the benefits in could really make or break in this day and age. What do you feel about salary? I feel like that’s such a like, do you put the salary in? Don’t you put the salary in? What is your expert advice on that?

0:25:11 Jamie Van Cuyk: Yeah, so depending on where you are located, there are a lot of places now where it is required to put salary. And there are places where I would predict over the next five to ten years, it’s probably a lot more places where it’s going to be required for you to put salary information. I say put it even if it’s not required for where you live yet where your business is located, you should put the salary information.

0:25:38 Jamie Van Cuyk: Why? Because people don’t work just to work. They work to make money. And we know that not every gym, every location can offer the same amount of money. And people need to know that before they’re going in. Because sometimes people have their limits. They can’t take below a certain amount or it’s not worth their time to be working. They need to make a certain amount in order to keep a roof over their head and food on the table, that it’s really a non negotiable for them.

0:26:09 Jamie Van Cuyk: So you don’t want to get all the way through a process and then find out that you can’t hire your ideal candidate because you can’t afford them. And not only did it take your time, it took that person’s time. So put it out there. That way people know what they’re coming into. Be transparent so people can make the right decisions from the start. I know sometimes people worry that they will then not get candidates if there’s a places that pay a lot more.

0:26:34 Jamie Van Cuyk: And there’s probably some people who will make that decision to apply elsewhere and not to you if they don’t feel that you’re being competitive. But there are other people that are going to read that job description and say, I really want to work here, and I can work with that salary. And so be transparent. And I say, put it on every job posting.

0:26:53 Dori Nugent: All right, Jamie, so many great ideas and information that you are giving us today. This is just fantastic. I know that our FTP family out there listening is jotting down, making notes. This is great. Hey, I have one last question for you, and could you maybe just share like, three questions that you feel you should ask in every interview?

0:27:16 Jamie Van Cuyk: Yes. So I find this to be such an interesting question because every time we’re working with my clients, no matter what the position they’re hiring for, the interview guides we help them create are 100% unique. So we’ve hired for the exact same title across two businesses in the same industry. And 90% of those interview guides are completely different from the other, because, like we said, you need to focus the process on who is your ideal candidate and ask questions that uncover if that person is right for you.

0:27:46 Jamie Van Cuyk: Which means, once again, your Idea candidate is going to look different than this other person’s. Idea candidate. So of course you’re going to have unique interview questions. So I always say the last thing you should do is go do a Google search and say, what are the top interview questions to ask if you’re hiring a personal trainer? Because I can guarantee you most of those questions are going to not uncover anything of value that you need to know.

0:28:08 Jamie Van Cuyk: So majority of your interview questions should really tie back to what do you need to know about a candidate to determine if they’re the right hire. But. Sandy only want me to provide three. I can give you three that I say you should include in every interview process, no matter what, because there are some basic questions that uncover some good information. The first is we start off every interview with, can you take a few minutes to walk me through your work history, focusing on what you feel is most relevant to the position?

0:28:39 Jamie Van Cuyk: Why do we start with this? Especially when we have a copy of their resume in front of us? Because it’s a good Icebreaker question. Candidates know about their work history. It kind of eases them into it. They know you’re most likely going to ask this, so they’ve practiced it. You get to hear things that might not be on their resume. You get to hear what they really meant when they put this bullet point there.

0:29:00 Jamie Van Cuyk: So it’s a good ease into the interview, and you might uncover information that you couldn’t get on their resume. The next question that we ask majority of the time is, why are you looking for a new opportunity? This question will let us know sometimes red flags of, okay, this person is not right for us. It lets us know if we’re a good fit. So, for example, if they’re leaving because of a specific reason and you’re sitting there saying, that’s exactly how my business operates, then chances are you’re not going to be the right fit for them either.

0:29:33 Jamie Van Cuyk: So you want to hear what’s going on. Sometimes you can hear about their goals and what’s going to make them happy and what’s going to make them stay with you long term. So there’s a lot of good information you can uncover from that answer. And then the last thing that we always ask in the very first conversation that we have with candidates, because typically our interview process consists of at least two interviews.

0:29:57 Jamie Van Cuyk: The very first interview, we always ask the question about salary, about pay. You cannot in most places ask someone what they’re currently making. So even if they’re coming from another gym holding the exact same position, or you want to see if they’re coming over with transferable skills, what are they currently making? In most places you cannot ask, what do you currently make? But you can ask questions of, as you’re looking for a new opportunity, what are your salary expectations?

0:30:25 Jamie Van Cuyk: And then hear what that candidate says. Or you can ask the question of the pay range for this position is between X and Y, and where a candidate will fall will depend on experience. Does that range match what you are looking for? So that way you can find out early on in the process if their pay needs match what you can pay. Because even though you do post it on the job, sometimes candidates choose to overlook it.

0:30:50 Jamie Van Cuyk: And sometimes candidates say, well, I know you post a range of between X and Y. I’m a little bit above y, but maybe there’s room for negotiation and that can bring up the topic up front in the interview. So both you can really find out, is there a match here? Before you get too far into the process and you fall in love with a candidate that you can never afford.

0:31:12 Dori Nugent: Jamie, you’ve done an awesome job at just kind of giving a lot of important information upfront in this short 20 minutes interview. So I really appreciate it. But before we go, I just want to ask you I’m going to flip.

0:31:25 Jamie Van Cuyk: This for a second.

0:31:26 Dori Nugent: Is there any trend that you’re seeing and I know this can be so broad, but I’m going to try to just have you bring it in. Is there any trend that you’re seeing employees are really looking for when they go in for the interview?

0:31:39 Jamie Van Cuyk: Yes. So one of the things people want is they really want transparency. They want to know what the process is like. They don’t want to be surprised with, oh, now there’s another round of interviews. Oh, wait, now we need you to do this. They really want transparency and they want an easy process. That doesn’t mean not a thorough process, but they don’t want to feel like they have to jump through unnecessary hoops because they want to feel valued. They want to feel like their time is valued. And if you have them jump through a lot of hoops just to get an interview or just to get a job offer, they sit there and think, wow, this person is going to have me jump through a lot of unnecessary hoops every day in the job.

0:32:17 Jamie Van Cuyk: And I’m not going to do that because there are a lot of opportunities out there. Candidates, even though things are changing all the time in the job market, most good candidates still have their pick of jobs. So you want to make sure that your process really displays who you are and that you’re transparent throughout that process, so people know what to expect, so that way they can figure out if it’s the right fit. Because if it doesn’t feel right, they’re going to leave your process, and then you’re going to be scrambling to find who’s next.

0:32:55 Dori Nugent: Thank you, Jamie, for your great insight. Now that is an episode to kick off 2023. We love to hear from our FBP family. What good takeaways did you find in this episode? Please feel free to reach out to me or you can post it on social media and tag the fitness business podcast. Looking for a further discussion with Jamie? Head to the Show [email protected] for all of Jamie’s contact information.

0:33:22 Dori Nugent: And while you’re there, hit that subscribe button so the Show Notes will be directly emailed to you. Coming up next, I will introduce you to Brand Strategist with her own unique brand, debbie O’Connor, author of Brand Magic, looking for a gym wipe that is gentle on fitness equipment but tough on eliminating germs. Look no further. Vaporfresh Gym Wipes are specifically designed to be safe on all gym equipment, and the fact that they are the only plant based disinfectant wipe on the market makes them the top choice.

0:34:01 Dori Nugent: Vaporfresh wipes come in two convenient sizes. The smaller canister is perfect for home gyms and boutique studios, and the jumbo refill roll fits perfectly into the dispensers. Vapor fresh wipes. 100% happiness guaranteed.

0:34:21 Hapana: Quick Fire Five, sponsored by Hapana.

0:34:25 Dori Nugent: Allow me to introduce you to next week’s guests in our Quick Fire Five segment. Take a listen. Creative director of White River Design, debbie. O’Connor is our Quick Fire Five guest today. Debbie, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking time out of your day to spend with us next week for your big episode.

0:34:44 Debbie O’Connor: I’m so excited about this. This is fabulous.

0:34:48 Dori Nugent: All right, well, before you come onto this show next week, we always like to do this fun, get to know you. So I have a couple of questions. Have fun with it. And here we go. First one is, what is your top guilty pleasure?

0:35:05 Debbie O’Connor: I would have to say going to the hairdresser, because I get two and a half hours entirely to me. I can read my book. I love it when someone plays with my hair, so I have someone playing with my hair. I get my hair washed for me, beautiful head massage, and I get copious cups of tea and coffee whenever I want.

0:35:26 Dori Nugent: Oh, my God. That is the best answer ever. That wins a prize. Oh, my gosh. I think a lot of our FBP family out there. I’m getting guys too, but they might nod their head.

0:35:40 Jamie Van Cuyk: Totally relatable. Love it.

0:35:41 Debbie O’Connor: All right.

0:35:42 Dori Nugent: What is a habit or an action you do to be productive?

0:35:47 Debbie O’Connor: Right. Okay, so in our office, we have what we call the block ass hat. It is an oversized Mexican hat that, when you’re on a deadline and you’ve got something urgent that you have to do, you can put your hat on. So visually, everyone can see that you’re in block art. You have to turn your emails off. You don’t receive any phone calls. Nobody is allowed to interrupt you, and you can simply sit there and focus and get the job done.

0:36:18 Dori Nugent: My God, I am coming to your office every day. Every day.

0:36:24 Jamie Van Cuyk: I’m wearing the house.

0:36:27 Dori Nugent: All right, here we go. What is an activity that you do that calms you?

0:36:33 Debbie O’Connor: I like to go out into nature. So during COVID what I actually took up was paddling. So on the river, just getting onto a kayak and going for a paddle. So I love the water being outdoors. We’ve had a lot of rain in Sydney, and we’ve had a lot of floods, but sometimes the river is a little bit swollen, so I like to go for a really nice, long walk.

0:36:57 Jamie Van Cuyk: Okay, beautiful answer.

0:36:58 Dori Nugent: Now, you said earlier about reading, so I would love for you to recommend a book to our FBP family.

0:37:06 Debbie O’Connor: Okay, so other than my own, of course, I would then say from a business perspective, I would go with The Slight Edge by Jeff Olsen. It’s very similar to Atomic Habits, but it was written before, so it just shows these small habits that you have every day that compound and can make a big difference in your life.

0:37:28 Dori Nugent: Now I’m going to hand the mic over to you and I’m going to give you 30 seconds to pitch your episode next week and why our FTP family should come on back.

0:37:39 Debbie O’Connor: Firstly, your brand is not just your logo. Your brand is made up of so much more than your logo. And we need to start with your personality. But if we can use psychology based strategies to really connect you to your perfect customer, that is the ultimate goal. So we dive into the twelve personality archetypes developed by Carl Jung and how you can build a brand with personality.

0:38:19 Dori Nugent: Graphic designer by trade, brand strategist by profession. Don’t miss Debbie O’Connor’s episode, set a calendar reminder or save time by subscribing to the [email protected].

0:38:32 Debbie O’Connor: Again.

0:38:33 Dori Nugent: Everybody. Happy New Year. My wish is that this is your best year ever. With these sponsors backing our show, how can it not be another amazing year? At the Fitness Business podcast, I’d like to say thank you to our founding partner, Active Management. Our partners keep me Myzone Issa Hapana, as well as our Advertisers rex, roundtables MX metrics and vaporfresh. We believe what you leave behind is not what’s engraved in stone monuments, but woven into the lives of others.

0:39:26 Jamie Van Cuyk: Key points.

END OF EPISODE