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Transcription – Amanda Bond Show 158

Chantal:                               Amanda! How exciting is this? Welcome to the Fitness Business Podcast.

Amanda Bond:                  Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to be here. Your energy is amazing and I can’t wait to dive into this topic.

Chantal:                               I am absolutely pumped. So I want to explain to everyone that we had set up this interview originally and we kind of briefed you and said, hey we really wanna talk about retargeting on Facebook, we had all of our questions set to go and then of course the Facebook algorithm bomb dropped. Bomb. I went, no we gotta talk about that as well. So you have very kindly agreed for us to run through a whole lot of questions today.

Amanda Bond:                  Absolutely.

Chantal:                               As much as I am capable of shutting up, I’m gonna try and not talk too much and let you be in charge of the microphone. So look, everyone has heard the talk about the Facebook updates, we’re all aware that there’s been algorithm changes. So do you want to talk us through what you think are top three things that fitness business professionals need to know about the new Facebook algorithm updates.

Amanda Bond:                  Alright, I got some big ones. Are you ready for this? Number one, this change is not new, the public announcement was new. It actually went into effect last July. I have all the screen shots on my phone of the actual notification about the update, talking about what the update said in January. So the day the update went live was just the public side of it but algorithmically, it has been live since July. So one, calm down. Stop stressing. Because all that happened was like it was an uproar. It was like pandemonium and fear mongering around it.

So the second thing that I just have to say to people is go back to what works for you on your Facebook page, and stop worrying about what the algorithm is actually doing. Because when you didn’t know that algorithm was doing something, it didn’t affect you. It didn’t show up that way. The minute that you think the algorithm is changing the placebo effect takes like full force and you’re like, oh my god this is the end, everything’s changed, everything’s different, and so it’s the awareness factor. So the second thing is just go back to what works for you and tune out the noise beside you.

And then the third thing I like to just talk about, whether it’s Facebook ads or organically, is have a strategy, like a vision in place for where you’re going with it. I don’t just mean have tactics. I mean have a lot term game plan, understand why you do things. Put in work to understand your audience, their needs, what they wanna do or how you can help them or serve them, but stop focusing on the minutia. Stop focusing on the, well if I don’t put the link in the post and then I tag the link underneath with an image, that gets a significantly higher reach says the algorithm.

I’m here to tell you that that’s absolute nonsense because I do absolutely the opposite of what the algorithm says most times, and my engagement rates are through the roof, like bigger than pages 100 times my size. I’m not even joking you, the engagement on my page is bigger than Social Media Examiner sometimes because I have a vision, I know what my audience wants and I show and be human on the platform and truly like connect with my tribe. My page, my business page, not my personal profile, is where I cultivate my audience and my community. And I have back and forth, one to one discussions with everyone.

So for you who’s listening to this, ask yourself, how can I use my page as a way to facilitate conversation, as a way to create platform, an authority, an influence. But to do that it starts with having that connection and really like showing up for community that you’re creating around that page. Don’t be the Spammy McSpammerson who’s just like buy it, buy it, buy it, session, over here and then we have a new product and MLMs over here. Don’t be that person.

Chantal:                               Can I just say, total confession, I have been that person who went into mass panic, and you’re so right because I don’t think I’ve ever looked so closely at the insights on our business page as I have, and it’s been getting me down. And the other day I heard you do an interview the other day and you said exactly what you said just then. I was like, why am I focusing so much on this minute detail as you say, we need to think about a bigger strategy, what does the bigger picture look like, that’s where our attention should be.

Amanda Bond:                  Yeah, exactly. It’s funny actually, if you go to the press release that they released for the newsroom and you really read, like you take time to go through it sentence by sentence to really decipher the real meaning, all it is saying is, we value connection, we value user experience and we have ways that our algorithm determines that by signals. So signals are likes, comments, shares, conversations, clicks, page messages, all of those things, if you have favourable signals to the algorithm, it doesn’t matter what the update like how it’s gonna affect you because your audience is going to come to the table. They’re gonna partake in that community and that conversation. So I really challenge anyone who’s really freaking out about it so go back to the news update and read between the lines because what’s actually happening, I believe, is their making more room for ad inventory by penalising people who are shitty marketers. That’s it.

Chantal:                               Okay. You’ve kind of opened up the perfect segue, and that’s talking about advertising because in all honesty so many fitness professionals out there market on a zero dollar or a very small budget. They need to know how they can actually reach their audience. And you already touched on the fact that you utilise your page for building that community, and you’ve got a long term strategy around it. What advice would you give to fitness professionals that, in order to actually maximise their Facebook reach, without spending a fortune.

Amanda Bond:                  On ads. Great question. First thing I’m gonna do is actually pump the brakes on the thought about using Facebook advertising just yet. The first thing that we need to do is really focus on creating that community and that engagement. And the reason is because anyone who interacts with our brand on Facebook or comes and joins our email list, maybe they wanna get a newsletter update from us and be kept in the loop with some tips and lessons or some different exercises, or anyone that interacts with us on Facebook, those people are going into what we call “retargeting audiences”.

So retargeting is just a fancy word for reminder marketing, getting ads back in front of people who have already had a brand interaction with you. So our goal is to actually grow the size of our retargeting audience before we ever spend a dollar on ads. And so I really recommend people spend some time on creating that community on their Facebook page. Doing things like analysing what people are reacting to, having two way conversations, going live and then looking at the results of those things. Like look, are people commenting, are people interested, are people engaging? If the answer is no, your ads are very likely to tank. Because if you can’t get people to engage with your brand organically on the page, putting paid advertising behind it is only amplify that problem. It’s not gonna fix it. It’s not gonna like magically make people want to transact with you. If we don’t understand how to do that without Facebook ads, Facebook’s only gonna amplify that problem.

So first and for most, figure out how to sell without being desperate or salesy. Get into the heads of your customer and truly figure out their needs, their desires and a lot of their objections, which usually comes from like one to one conversations like this. I love the phone. I love Zoom or Skype to get into the heads of your potential prospects, or your potential clients to actually understand their needs, and then start making offers. And if you are having people transact with you in your business, then and only then, may it be time to consider Facebook ads. I don’t say it is but if people are transacting with you, you’re on the right path way to then really have successful Facebook ads.

Chantal:                               Okay. So we need to take the time to do that now. Listen, it’s a probably a good time to remind everyone that the second part of our entire interview is all around that Facebook retargeting. So if people are feeling a little bit puzzled at the moment and then thinking … Because I know personally when I used to think about retargeting I was like, oh it’s too complicated to do by myself and I’m gonna hire someone to do it, but I’m hoping that we’ll be able to unravel a lot of that today. So if anyone’s thinking that right now, then you need to stay tuned for the second part [inaudible 00:09:52] because we’re gonna get deep diving into that a little bit more.

The other big thing that I wanted to talk to you about is, so I think like a lot of people when I first heard this news of the algorithm changes, one of the first things that I did was we sat down, we had a strategy meeting about how we market the show and everything and I went, we’ve gotta create a Facebook group. We gotta create this, it’s what we gotta do, we’re not gonna get any interaction on the page, we gotta start a Facebook group. And the owner of the podcast kinda went, hey hang on a second, maybe we don’t need to do that right now. And then I heard you being interviewed, and going, you don’t need to create a Facebook group. Okay, talk to us about groups.

Amanda Bond:                  Okay, so we’re gonna segue ’cause remind me later in the interview about the very first time I put the dots together about retargeting. I wanna tell you that story.

Chantal:                               I’m gonna write it down.

Amanda Bond:                  Facebook groups. I’ve heard that so many times since this update. Oh my gosh, Facebook pages are dead, it’s a graveyard, I’m never gonna get anymore reach, it’s over, let’s start a Facebook group. And I say, calm down, let’s really think about this. The challenge with a Facebook group … I actually shut down my own Facebook group, and I’ve actually recommended to a lot of clients and colleagues for them to do the same, because why, it take a lot of time to manage them. It allows other people to create threads which then take you completely off topic and remove you as the expert that the group is supposed to make you, not make you, but the group is supposed to hold you as, and it really pushes other people’s agenda.

We’ve all been in groups where like other people come in with their low key lifestyle posts trying to sell you the dream. We all know those ones, like you guys aren’t fooling us. So it’s actually costly. I was going to say, not cost effective but that didn’t sound good. It’s really costly to manage a Facebook group in terms of the actual cost, those leads are like costing your revenue wise. We did the math on the client, a lead that came from a Facebook group, we paid 200 dollars for, and this was a group with tens of thousands of people because of time, effort, group moderation, deleting spam, deleting porn. Like there’s so much that goes on in Facebook groups it’s ridiculous. So the actual leads that came from the group were 200 dollars a piece. On Facebook they were like 40 times less. They were like five dollars. It was cheaper to spend on Facebook ads and just scale up that way through the page than to curate and monitor this entire group. So that’s major like argument one.

The second is, within a Facebook group you’re actually gating your genius. That’s what I like to refer to it as. On a page, it’s public so if I say something awesome and my community is like, bomb I dig you, I’m gonna share that with my friends and family, they’re able to do that. So let’s say it’s a Facebook live, if my audience is sharing my Facebook lives while we’re live broadcasting. I now have multiple entry points into a Facebook live of people coming to watch me on my Facebook page. If I go live in my Facebook group, it is limited by the total number of members in the group, no more. There’s not a chance for momentum. There’s not a chance for it to go viral. If your group is 600 members, only 600 members max, if you achieved 100 percent penetration can see the content that you put out in a group.

So I really say ungate your genius, put yourself in the leadership position and treat your Facebook page as you would a group and really dive in and treat it like a community. If you want some real life examples I always recommend just taking a look at my page. So heading over to, you’ll see that back and forth dialogue, open ended questions. Exactly the same as you would see in a group, but done on the page and then that ungates that genius, creating momentum and like really just allowing people to share, to be exposed to new audiences and you can amplify it with advertising. If you have something that’s a major hit and it has loads of comments and shares and likes. That happens in a Facebook group? That’s it. That’s all that you can do with it. If that happens on your page and it’s leading to potential clients and your email list growing and new future people finding out about you, that is so powerful because then you can put some ad spend behind it and amplify it.

Chantal:                               I love that. Thank you so much and they’re pretty convincing arguments I’ve got to say, so I take back my neutral reaction to starting a group. You’ve convinced me. I think you’ve largely covered these in your answers revolving around pages. Are there any extra tips that you would give, let’s say if you were in the shoes of a fitness business owner right now in February 2018, is there anything else you would do to continue to make sure that you’re connecting with your Facebook audience?

Amanda Bond:                  Yeah. One of the biggest things, and it’s especially true on Facebook or Instagram is just really sharing stories, not necessarily selling all the time. You can still be leading people towards a sale, you can still be nurturing people to find out about you and your products and your offerings, but instead of being so in your face like, call, 662-458-25 whatever a phone number is, to book your training session today. Like instead of being so in your face with it, why don’t you tell a story about how you’ve changed somebody’s life because now they have more mobility after working with you for three months. Tell it from a place that evokes emotion or conversation, but stop doing such in your face marketing tactics and start paying attention to the engagement that your page gets.

If you look at those posts … And I have to say, I’ve only learned this lesson because I was guilty of that myself. We always learn through doing and being in the trenches, so that was me 100 percent. I was in an MLM company, it was health and wellness focused and I was like, new product, sale, this, that, just hammering it. It was until I started educating through stories, through lessons, through sharing insight that I have created such a hunger for what I offer out there, and same for all of our clients. Once they stop making it about the product and about the transformation that they’re helping people achieve, your results will be night and day different. So on Insta on Facebook, stop making it about you and your bottom line, start making it about the transformation that you can help people achieve through with every your modality is.

Chantal:                               Yeah, and I have to say, I think we are so spoiled in the fitness industry because we have so many incredible stories to be able to talk about and be able to …

Amanda Bond:                  Oh my gosh.

Chantal:                               Yeah, I love that. I love that. Okay, we’re gonna make the kinda transition. We’re gonna continue this little journey and I wrote my note that you said remind me later because we’re gonna move into retargeting now, and you said, the moment that you joined the dots together about retargeting. Let’s start there.

Amanda Bond:                  Yeah.

Chantal:                               That light bulb moment.

Amanda Bond:                  It literally was a light bulb moment. I was actually sitting at my mom’s house before my business found the success that it has today. I was one of those people in her late 20s, I was like, Mom, my last business failed, I gotta move in. That was me. And so I was sitting there probably in my Ninja Turtle pyjamas at the time ’cause obvs, who doesn’t wear Ninja Turtle pyjamas? And all of a sudden I had learning and taking it so much marketing information, listening to the podcasts, reading the blogs, looking at all the videos and trying to put together and all of a sudden it was like a moment of downtime, I was probably have like a glass of wine in my hand and it clicked. It literally was like the moment of epiphany that click, oh my gosh, so you’re telling me when the Facebook pixel is on a website page, and then somebody visits that page of the website, we can just tell Facebook to say, hey here’s an ad because you visited that page of a website.

And I started yelling, I was so excited. My mom was home and she’s like, I don’t know what you’re saying but awesome. And it was that moment that it was so simple. It sounds so simple when you explain it in that clarity, but until that point where all the dots were connected, it was another language. It made no sense like, retargeting and remarketing and we’re gonna do that, and we’re gonna target this interest and then we’re gonna do that with lookalikes and then have some customs. And you’re like, what?

Chantal:                               Yeah, and I think that’s how most people feel. You start saying words like pixel and retargeting and most people kind of go, uh too complicated.

Amanda Bond:                  Yup, absolutely. It’s like learning a language. I actually lived in France for a year, and it was about four months in when I woke up one day and it was the same, it was that click, where I realised in that moment that I was having a thought in French. Exactly the same way as that when we learn marketing for our business, all of a sudden we’re going to be in a conversation and we’re gonna be like, I get it, this isn’t a foreign language anymore.

Chantal:                               Okay, so that prompts me to say, I wanna be able to break it down for all of our listeners. Let’s make it this whole kind of … I don’t wanna say puzzle but let’s make it as clear as we possibly can so people can really grasp what we’re talking about. So can you gives us a bit of a … First of all maybe gives us a bit of definition, talk to us about custom audience, retarget audience, remarketing audience, lookalike audience, there’s so much there. Talk to us about those four different things. Are they still relevant with the changes that have come in? And maybe just help us understand the terms a little bit better.

Amanda Bond:                  Okay, perfect. So the way that I … Actually since we’re on video I’m gonna pull up a visual just to like compliment what we’re talking about here. If you’re just listening to the audio, I’ll do an explanation of it as well. But when I talk about Facebook ads whether it is the paid side of the ad platform, whether it is the organic side of just the Facebook platform, I like to talk about it in three phases. These are foundational marketing principles. These are three foundational marketing phases. So what they are are connect, commit and close.

The first phase connect is all about branding your business. It’s about bringing in people who don’t know you and getting them to understand who you are, what you’re about, what you help people accomplish. Really indoctrinating them into your way of doing things. The second phase is where most people start with their Facebook advertising and where a majority of advertising dollars go. I don’t say that to say, it’s a great thing, but it’s just the realities. The commit phase, so the middle phase of the three phases is where we do lead generation. So for some that could mean email newsletter growth, we’re generation new leads who are interested in our newsletter. That could be discovery or consultations that we do with people to see if they’d like to become clients. In that phase we are really just trying to identify if they are a potential fit for what we’re offering. In the close phase, this is all about talking around purchase intent. It’s about helping people make a purchase decisions where they can … You’re helping them overcome their objections and get out of decision mode and into like, awesome I’m gonna be a client or I am not gonna be a client. It’s that make it or break it moment.

So I share those three things because at each of these three phases, if you’re looking at the screen the left side is blue, so in connect phase one is blue like the cold audience temperature. It’s cold on that side. And on the right hand side of this graphic is red hot, these are hot people who are most likely to make purchase decisions and actually become clients in your business. So where Facebook targeting breaks down is that there’s three levels based on those temperatures. There’s ice cold people who don’t have a clue who you are. There’s people that are in your warm audience who have had brand interactions and then there is your red hot, ready to make a purchase, sales retargeting audience.

In your cold audiences, like I said, these are people who don’t even have a clue who you are, what we can do is we can target our audiences of interest. So let’s use Dr. Josh Axe or like Dr. Oz as somebody who has an audience that they’ve built on Facebook, we can actually tell Facebook, like hey, we wanna target Dr. Oz’s or Dr. Axe’s audiences. Just type in their name and Facebook goes blu-do-doop, alright that’s available, like let’s target those audiences. So you can create ads that go out to other people’s audiences. That’s called just a saved interest audience. Super simple, just an interest. They’re a Facebook interest, that’s one.

The second one is a lookalike audience, which is a little bit harder to describe, but essentially you give Facebook a source audience of at least 100 people. This could be past clients, this could be people in your email newsletter, or it could be people from your Facebook page if it’s over 100 people, and we tell Facebook, Facebook, go use your lookalike powers and find me one percent of the population of a country that makes the attributes that this source audience has. These 100 people, group them all together, analyse them, see what they like, see how they react on Facebook, see what they buy, see what they don’t and then go out and amplify that, find one percent of a country’s population that may or may not act like them on Facebook.

So those are the two different cold audiences that you can target. You can just say, hey here’s who I want to target exactly or hey Facebook, let’s use your data and insight and I’m gonna give you a small audience, you go find me hundreds of thousands, millions of other people just like them, who are most likely to transact with my brand. That was connect.

Chantal:                               That’s phase one.

Amanda Bond:                  Phase one. So that’s cold connect. In commit phase, the middle phase, is all about the warm audiences and so there’s a lot, I think there’s like eight, maybe ten, might be up to 11 different audiences but I find fitness professionals, I find service providers were consistently using about six of the different audiences so I’m gonna highlight what those warm audiences are. So the first one is your email list. If you’re using an email list, like if you have people’s email, as long as you have 20 of them, you can input them into Facebook and Facebook will allow you to put ads in front of those people. So that is audience number one.

Chantal:                               Do those ads appear in their newsfeed?

Amanda Bond:                  It could, it could appear in their newsfeed, it could appear in their Instagram, it could appear in the Messenger. You can choose where you want those ads to be placed.

Chantal:                               You can put them right in front of that audience.

Amanda Bond:                  You can put it right in front of those. If you have 21 people, 21 people have the ability to see whatever ad you wanna get in front of. That’s one, email list. Number two, your website traffic as long, there’s a caveat here, as you have a Facebook pixel installed. Pixel is just a fancy term for a small piece of code that you put on the back end of your website. And I have a really simple just blog post that outlines it if you go to it’ll show you how to add it to WordPress and different simple places like that. But as long as the pixel is there, what Facebook does is … What your website does is actually like send a data back to Facebook saying to Facebook, hey important stuff is happening over here, take note of it. So anyone who visits your website, you can then put ads in front of with a website custom audience. Email. Website.

Chantal:                               Quickly just one minute I’m gonna say to those of you who are watching on video, I’m gonna put that link to your website, magic of post edit, just down at the bottom. For those of you that are listening and aren’t watching, I’m gonna put that link in today’s show notes.

Amanda Bond:                  Excellent. There’s two more I’m going to talk about. I said six total. There’s two more that I’m gonna talk about but for those two, they each have Facebook and Instagram, Facebook and Instagram. So there’s gonna be four but I’m only gonna explain it twice.

The next one is video viewers. Anyone who watches at least three seconds of your videos, from your Facebook page not your personal profile, which I know a lot of you might be guilty of using your personal profile for business, that’s a no-no in Facebook’s terms and conditions, so from your Facebook business page, anyone who watches at least three seconds of a video, from your page not your group, not your personal page, from your business page, goes into a video views retargeting audience. So for the last year of your page, anyone who’s watched at least three seconds of your video, you can put an ad in front of again. Like you can say to Facebook, I would like to target anyone who watched at least three seconds of all of the videos on my page.

My page is tiny in the grand scheme of like how big a page can be. It’s 5,000 people and my video views audience I believe is 88,000 people. So the size of my audience is actually 18 times bigger than my actual page because they don’t have to like your page, all they have to do is see at least three seconds of it and if you’re using Facebook ads, you can get it out to more people.

Chantal:                               And so also, if one of the people who have liked your page, watched your video and shared that with all their friends.

Amanda Bond:                  Yes!

Chantal:                               Then anyone then that watches it on their page goes into that 88,000 that you just talked about.

Amanda Bond:                  Exactly and that’s the power …

Chantal:                               Sorry.

Amanda Bond:                  No, you go. That’s the power of the page.

Chantal:                               So earlier, part one, we were talking about groups versus pages and you said, one of the big things is that when you are putting content within a group that’s closed, it’s in that little circle. If you are posting content on your page then you have the ability to reach so many more people because people can share your content.

Amanda Bond:                  Yes, exactly. And when they share it, anyone who watches it on their … Like if it’s in their newsfeed ’cause they’re friends with Scott and Jenny who shared it, then their going to come into your video views retargeting audience even if they didn’t click through to your page. Now if they’re friends with Scott and Jenny, who might also be interested in what you’re putting out, they might be interested in what you’re putting out. That is available for both Facebook and Instagram. Instagram has to be a business profile, not a personal profile. And it is easy to switch that over on Instagram, so if you haven’t been using a business profile, definitely Google it and make a decision if that’s right for you.

So video views is number three. So we have email, we have website, we have video views and now we have engagement, which is my favourite. And one of the main reasons that I love growing my page is that anyone who interacts with the entirety of the page, meaning they react, they like, they comment, they share, they click an ad, they message my page, they like visit my page and scroll by. Any of those people then come into the engagement custom audience, and that’s for an entire year as well. We can go back … Anyone whose interacted with our page in the last year is now in this audience as well.

So my small page of 5,000 people, which in the grand schemes is also quite large, when your page isn’t 5,000 but compared to other pages, it’s also quite small. The size of my retargetable warm audience, so people who have had a previous brand interaction with me is 110,000 people. So it’s 22 times bigger than the actual size of my page. And the reason is because of the Facebook engagement and the Facebook video views. That is where all of mine comes from. And fun fact, our email list is actually half of our page is on our email list. So like one out of every two people in that page community, because there’s so much value over there, actually comes onto the email list, which we can then speak to them through email as well as the page.

So those are the four audiences. That last engagement is for Facebook or your Instagram business profile, so people that are hitting the heart and their leaving comments or they’re DM’ing you, sliding into your DMs, I think that’s the cool way to say it. Anyone who does that is in your warm audience for Instagram as well. So that’s the middle phase, that’s the warm phase.

The last phase and this is where you can get really ninja, is that depending on actions that people take in anyone of those retargeting audiences. For example, if somebody watches 95 percent of a video about your new service that you’re offering, we can then say to Facebook, hey this video where I talk about this new offering, I want to get back in front of the 32 people that watch 95 percent of my video. And so you can go into Facebook, into the audience dashboard and just say, this video, 95 percent, click save and then you’re gonna target those people. And it is that simple. You can go as deep as you want to. In the third phase close, which is all about identifying those red hot prospects to actually become clients, customers, buy your products or services along the way.

So it’s video views, it could be a specific page on your website. Like let’s say you have a services page on your website, anyone who hits your services page, you can put Facebook ads right back in front of them saying, hmm maybe you wanna jump on a call or maybe you wanna schedule a free consultation. So it is the power of Facebook is so crazy how like detailed you can get. It’s also the exact thing that overwhelms a lot of marketers.

So if you’re not at a place where you’re consistently selling your products of services profitably, I’m gonna get you again to pump those Facebook ad breaks and really focus on your sales process organically. If you nail that sales process organically and you start becoming more in demand and you book your calendar and you’re able to raise your rates and charge better prices. Then you might want to look into Facebook ads. But if your calendar is empty, please don’t start using Facebook ads thinking that it’ll solve the problem. The problem isn’t ads, it isn’t the amount of people in front of you, it’s your ability to actually talk to them and have them believe that your service, your offer is the thing that will help them achieve the transformation they’re looking for.

I share all these ninja tips but then I also dial it back and caution people. There’s a time and place for these ninja tips.

Chantal:                               Thank you so much for putting all that clarity in it. Personally, it really helped me to see the slide that you shared because seeing the segments I think was really important. I’ve got a few things I’m gonna try to get out of my head and bring into questions. The first thing is back in the very first audience that you spoke about, the very first segment that you talked about, I just wanna bring this into context of a fitness professional so that they’re really aware because quite often a question that I hear is, I’m just starting out in my business, I’ve got a really small following on my Facebook page, how do I start to grow from there and what … You gave the example I think of Dr. Oz and going and sort of targeting that audience.

I just wanna remind people that in that stage of the graph that you showed, that’s when it’s really important, correct me if I’m wrong, that’s probably when it’s really important that we have narrowed down our target audience and our avatar so that we know who we want to go out and reach. So that we know that we want to try and get in front of the local mum’s group or we want to try and get in front of, I don’t know, the older adults community or whoever it might be. So that early staged you talked about is an opportunity for us as fitness professionals to try and branch out and extend our reach. Am I correct in saying that?

Amanda Bond:                  Absolutely. And the beauty of that phase is by knowing who you’re looking for as a client, by knowing who your customers are, you’re able to speak to them directly in the way that you tell stories. We’re not putting our phone number out here and saying book a session now, we’re speaking to the transformation that they’re looking to create in their lives. If you’re a fitness professional who also teaches other fitness professionals like in their lives and business. We need to take the time to understand who were trying to speak to to then deliver the best message to help resonate with it because if they’re not resonating with it, they’re not even gonna watch three seconds of your video. They’re not gonna engage. They’re not gonna click to your website. So we need to be crystal clear on who we help and who we don’t help.

And sometimes, I have to admit, in my own business before I was an ad strategist I started out as a social media manager who nerded out on spreadsheets and math so hard, I couldn’t help myself but go into ads. But in that time I took on so many clients along the way trying to figure out who I could best work with and what I was best able to help them achieve. So know that that’s also a process and it does take time. Sometimes we have to say yes, just because of financial obligations to what is in front of us to really find out where we want to go. And I have a great resource, it’s a book, if anyone is in that like starting foundational aspect of your business and you’re just starting in to get a few new clients, read a book called, The Pumpkin Plan. Have you read it?

Chantal:                               Mike Michalowicz-

Amanda Bond:                  Yeah.

Chantal:                               -is our current intensive guests, so I’ve pumped four weeks of interviews with Mike.

Amanda Bond:                  Amazing!

Chantal:                               He is the best.

Amanda Bond:                  The best.

Chantal:                               So I’m happy for you to bring up The Pumpkin Plan.

Amanda Bond:                  Yeah, I absolutely love Mike. The Pumpkin Plan is book that will … It actually changed my life, it actually is the thing that changed me from a social media manager to going all in on the Facebook ads. It essentially teaches us to treat our business like a prize winning pumpkin and the steps that have to happen along the way to create that juicy, prize winning business that we’re looking to. So I highly recommend that book in that phase so that you understand who to target and who’s most likely to transact with you down the line.

Chantal:                               Yeah, I love that. I love that you mentioned Mike. I was actually having this … I only spoke to him a couple of weeks ago and I was saying for me reading Profit First, which is one of his other books, that changed my business life.

Amanda Bond:                  Great book.

Chantal:                               I’m so thrilled to hear you say that now. I’ve gone completely off track. I have another question and it’s actual relates back to when we first started chatting because one of the things that you said was how important it is that we go into looking at how previous activity that we’ve done and having a look at what’s worked for us in the past, what are those posts that our customers most engage with and that’s a really important foundation or starting point before we even talk about advertising and stuff like that. In relation to … And as I said, I’m circling right back around. In relation to the latest Facebook updates, which we talked about, two of the things that I kept hearing about in the news was long form posts so writing long form content and live videos. If I’m a fitness professional right now, do I immediately jump on board those two things because that what I’m being told or do I continue to do as you say, or mentioned before, do I continue to do what had worked, is that my priority?

Amanda Bond:                  Great question and I’m not gonna give a straight like yes or no do this, I’m gonna say, it depends. I want you to experiment with it. If Facebook or if something is being told to you in an update, don’t take it as law, experiment. If Facebook Live is saying that you get six times more engagement, ask yourself why. Hmm let me think about it. If you’re live you can ask people questions and they can respond in real time, so they’re going to comment more. If I say something really rad and I ask thumbs up or hit the emoji if you agree with me and they go bananas, that’s engagement in real time. Okay, that makes sense. If I’m talking about something I’m really passionate about, maybe I’m ranting on it and I say, if you have a friend that does X, Y, Z just like this that needs to hear this, please share with them, and then people start sharing. And then all of a sudden you’re expanding your audience and your influence. Oh okay, that’s why Facebook Live gets more engagement, that makes sense.

So take the time to test it and the very first time you go live on Facebook … I remember my first time, I actually like had a panic attack when I saw the first one viewer there because I thought it was going to be like a hundred right away. Of course I did. I was like, I’m so nervous, there’s so many people that are gonna be watching me. And I talked for probably three minutes with zero, a big fat zero there. I was like walking my dog and I’m like distracted because my dog’s crazy and then she like bites me sometimes. Then I’m like on Facebook Live and I was like, okay I’m just panicking.

So I didn’t start off having hundreds of people on my Facebook Live, it was panicky so if I looked back then and said, Facebook Live gets six times more engagement, I might not believe it. But on my last Facebook Live we had 157 viewers, oh okay, now I’m starting to see that compounded. However, it was persistence. I always like to say, I like to work consistently not constantly. So it’s about building those habits and patterns with your social media so get out there and test and iterate what people like. It’s been a year of me consistently showing up to then understand what I should say to my audience to get them fired up, and also to extract my own frameworks and lessons about what I do.

If you look in the fitness industry, the top experts are people that have a very specific way of doing things. Let’s take like bulletproof coffee, like that’s a really great example that comes to mind. Bulletproof coffee, The Bulletproof Diet is so bulletproof, meaning there is nothing like it, and so … What’s his name? Dave, I can’t remember his last name. Dave Asprey I think it is. Dave Asprey can then say, I’m the founder of the bulletproof way of doing things. Now what he can do as a fitness professional, as somebody who charges for their expertise is, his expertise, because he took the time to figure out his methodologies and what his audience wants, are now worth more than just simply reiterating other people’s way of doing things.

In my own business we have a framework called the strategy system. Those three phases, we teach everything about ads within those three phases. But it took us two and a half years of being an agency, analysing hundreds of millions of ad impressions. So for you, who’s out there working with clients every day, constantly ask yourself like, what is different about the way I do things? What do I say to people that is a little bit counter to what the normal industry thinks or what the mass media is pushing? So really try and get clear on that because it’s that point of differentiation that is really going to establish your authority and also ignite your community. If your community can get around something, if they can believe in a cause, that’s going to get them to engage even more.

I know I went off on a tangent there from your long form question.

Chantal:                               One question in regards, ‘casue you said you’ve been doing Facebook Live for a year and the importance of consistency. Does consistency also mean broadcasting at the same day, same time each week? What does consistency mean?

Amanda Bond:                  The consistency just means practise. Just doing it. I have never, ever set a schedule. I think I maybe did it two weeks in a row at the same time and then I was like, yeah that’s not me. So literally if I feel inspired, this is how my consistency works, when I’m energised by a topic, when I’m inspired or when I’m outraged, it’s really full of emotion for me so I go off, okay am I feeling those things, I have a clipboard, I make one page of notes and I go live and I go off on that topic. And so anytime I feel in that mood, that’s the consistency for me. It’s not a calendar date. I don’t care when it says, it’s Tuesday at 7pm, my audience needs to hear from me. But that’s how I work. If that’s how you work, if consistency means calendar dates, that’s cool, too. Just try what works for you.

Chantal:                               Excellent. Man, we have talked about so much and it’s probably ticking onto about 7pm your time and I know you had a huge day. So to kind of bring things all together, to wrap things up, do you wanna maybe leave us with your top three piece of advice for fitness professionals when it comes to utilising, and I’m gonna come back to retargeting, so when it comes to using retargeting for the fitness business, what would be the top three things for them walk away with today?

Amanda Bond:                  Ooh, that’s a good one. Top three lessons for retargeting would be speak to the right … You’re already speaking to the right person at the right time with retargeting. So one, have some fun with it. If you have a fun and engaging personality, let that shine through in your marketing. Please, for the love of god, be yourself because that converts. I’ve seen so many people try and mimic other successful brands and have no success other than successful banging their head on the wall, that’s the only success that they’re having. So if you have fun with the brand, bring that to your retargeting. I always do memes and stuff if people don’t take the action that I want them to take. I’ll just put it back like in front of them and be like, oh you come to Bond’s landing page, but didn’t sign up hmm. So have fun with it is the first one.

Two have patience in the entire process because you won’t hit it out of the gate the first time, especially with the Facebook page in general, retargeting in general. It takes time. I actually just did a training right before this on setting up dynamic ad sequences for each of those three phases and my tips were, it takes about 90 days to 120 days to really see the fruits of your labour. So if you’re not ready for Facebook advertising, that’s okay. Take the time and go do more of the organic side of it but have patience in the process.

The last one is connect so deeply with the audience that you have. That is such a point of differentiation for so many of our client’s amazing businesses is the people that connect and truly understand the value that they bring to the world, and how they do that, and show up with a service heart. Those are the people that have the most success with Facebook advertising along the way.

Chantal:                               Thank you. Amanda, you are sensational. I love everything that we’ve covered today. I am so grateful, as I said, I know that you’ve had a massive day and you’ve just hopped us on the end of a lot of work that you’ve already done today so thank you for your energy. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and I cannot wait to get this out to all of FBP family. Thank you.

Amanda Bond:                  Oh my gosh, I’m so excited and if anyone has great success implementing these, please come back and share it with us. We’d love to hear how you’re using it.

Chantal:                               And we’re going to put all of your contact details, we’re gonna put your website, everything will go into the show notes for today’s show. So guys make sure you do jump over to and you’ll be able to find all of the information we talked about today. I’m also going to put a link there for The Pumpkin Plan, which is the book we talked about by Mike Michalowicz because if you haven’t read it, you need to read it. So Amanda Bond, thank you so, so much for joining us on the show today.

Amanda Bond:                  Thank you.

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